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Harmony and song writing

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Harmony and song writing Empty Harmony and song writing

Post by kentaku_sama Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:14 am

Well, I love to compose So I was wondering: when you compose a piece of music, do you start with a simple melody first with block chords and single keys? and then break it down into intervals and left hand Melody accompaniment. Well this is good and all except 90% percent of the time when I come up with music, it's already complex or as complex as I want it to be instead of simple!
I need a way to take a complex song and make it simple. Right now my melody is mostly octaves, which is a little dull so I may need to spice it up. Razz

Another thing is since I love to compose I'm trying to learn scales on my own! With this I decided to study harmony as well, but there hardly is any resources for it on the web!! Mad Do you guys know of any site on harmony. I want to study it, and I'm home school and I know more about music than my dad! and my mom knows nothing about music... Shocked So I can't take classes.

Also any good harmony books recommended? I need to study cadence too! Is there any good books on that, or is that included in harmony study? Will I learn about harmony in piano lessons?

Plz help!
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Post by pianohama Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:27 pm

learn to improvise first then start composing. check out my improvisation guide in general piano discussion
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Post by Thomandy Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:58 pm

Why learn how to improvise first??? geek

If you like to compose, do that!!!
You will get better at it, and as everything else: Talent + Theory + Experience = Good Compositions Smile

What I do is I start with melody and find harmony. But I know many feel they like to start with harmony. I think the conclusion is that you have to find what is right for you cause there is no right answer!! In time you will create a general model for how you work, and you will figure out how you want to start! Just try, fail and the learn from the mistakes. Also learn from the things you do right Smile
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Post by Admin Andrew Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:41 pm

Well, the one thing I'd like to say is that there are many methods of composing and each suit ones own personal style, so I agree with thomas that there is no real right answer to how to compose best. If it was true then EVERYONE would compose the same. I know beethoven said never to compose at the piano. I think he liked to get his inspiration from walks in nature.

Anyway... you asked for a good book series on harmony here is the last part

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books/Harmony-Practical-Approach-Part-3-Barbara-Mackin/9781894206204-item.html

Make sure you buy part 1 and part 2 first.

Hope that helps

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"Those who bring sunshine to the lives of other's cannot keep it from themselves."

Harmony and song writing Piano_10
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Post by pianohama Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:45 pm

Thomandy wrote:Why learn how to improvise first??? geek

If you like to compose, do that!!!

because then you dont really need to compose Wink. the best music comes when you play right out of the heart.. you can sit and improvise for an hour and record it, then pick out the bits you like and voila you have a comp Wink without sitting down and picking out notes one by one(kinda sucks to do that)
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Post by Thomandy Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:20 pm

pianohama wrote:
Thomandy wrote:Why learn how to improvise first??? geek

If you like to compose, do that!!!

because then you dont really need to compose Wink. the best music comes when you play right out of the heart.. you can sit and improvise for an hour and record it, then pick out the bits you like and voila you have a comp Wink without sitting down and picking out notes one by one(kinda sucks to do that)

I see your point, but that works for you. Dosnt mean that it works for him. It just sounded like you said That was the right thing to do, like it was a fact.
pianohama wrote:learn to improvise first then start composing.

Like he Had to learn how to improvise, then start to compose. Fex: Im not a big fan of improvs, might be someday.. But I love to compose. Its a lot of fun, and I never tried to learn how to improvise ect Smile
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Post by kentaku_sama Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:50 am

Basically I'm just gonna buy some books ,learn the scales, PRACTICE,
and find out for my self the chords and note combos that I think fit in a song. I've learned alot about improvising anyway. Usually when I compose, I just sit at the piano with a tune in my head. Then, I find little pieces of music that can be put together gradually. I also can find a meaning and feeling (this helps me get more into the composition)
Then I just put stuff together so I just really need to learn harmony. Andrew, you said that studying harmony is really useful for composing.
So I shall go buy a book or two and see. Smile
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Post by Thomandy Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:03 am

kentaku_sama wrote:Basically I'm just gonna buy some books ,learn the scales, PRACTICE,
and find out for my self the chords and note combos that I think fit in a song. I've learned alot about improvising anyway. Usually when I compose, I just sit at the piano with a tune in my head. Then, I find little pieces of music that can be put together gradually. I also can find a meaning and feeling (this helps me get more into the composition)
Then I just put stuff together so I just really need to learn harmony. Andrew, you said that studying harmony is really useful for composing.
So I shall go buy a book or two and see. Smile

Yeah, that is Great!! If you manage to put the melody's you got in your head and the feeling you got inside down on the piano, and get out what you feel, not just being random, I believe you are on your way for sure Smile Then its just to fit it into the rules Smile hehe - Or make the rules work for you!! Smile
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Post by kentaku_sama Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:48 am

Darn it! My music store dosen't sale anything bookwise but curriculum and song books! Have to order it off the web I guess Razz
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Post by pianohama Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:55 am

kentaku_sama wrote:Darn it! My music store dosen't sale anything bookwise but curriculum and song books! Have to order it off the web I guess Razz


First of all why don't you just have a try at my guide first? It's free and it's good, it's made of my own personal experience, people pay alot of money for that kind of information you know?

Secondly, harmony is something difficult, it's something that takes time to understand, but once you grasp it you will have a very good understanding of it. Just because you've read a book doesn't mean that you will understand it, you have to experiment and learn for yourself. Books may help you a bit, but you don't really learn anything until you sit down and experiment yourself.

I think your rushing it abit and getting ahead of yourself. Keep your head in the game and take it one step at a time my friend.
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Post by kentaku_sama Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:26 am

Ok I'll read your guide. Smile
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