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Are Beethoven Sonatas enough for practicing and become a master of piano?

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Are Beethoven Sonatas enough for practicing and become a master of piano?

Post by angelang on Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:27 am

Hi! , i am 19 years old mexican girl , sorry for the english it doesn't is my home lenguage.
I have been playing piano for six months, i practice two or three hours at day, everyday, and i learned almost only Beethoven music. I learned in this order:

-Fur Elise
-Moonlight Sonata 1st mvnt Adagio Sostenutto
-Pathetique Sonata 2nd mvnt Adagio Cantabile
-Moonlight Sonata 2nd mvnt Allegretto
-Tempest Sonata 3rd mvnt Allegretto (sonata 17 in d minor)
-Pathetique Sonata 1st mvnt Grave-Allegro , the introduction, exposition and currently learning the development.
-Pathetique Sonata 3rd mvnt Rondo , just the fisrt theme, learning the rest too.


Perfectly played all, except Pathetique first movement.Before starting with this movement i learned.

-Chopin Marche Funebre
-Mozart Fantasie in D minor
-Mozart Rondo alla Turka
-Schumann Traumerei
-Schuman Kid getting asleep

And i find out after learning beethoven, these ones were pretty easy.And i started with Toccata and Fugue in D minor BWV 565 of Bach of course. It has some very quickly cadenza styles parts, and the fugue gets in some parts difficult.Im playing my own version for piano, they are almost the same notes.

But I can't play it,really, specially the toccata and the end, the fast parts, then i tried a fugue of the Well Tempered Klavier and i can't play it too. Then Invention No. 8 of the two parts inventions, and i can't.

Bach turned extremely difficult to me.

I don't use Hanon or Czerny, i don't practice excersices, scales and that stuff.Don't practice sigth reading, i memorize.Just sit down and play pieces what i love.

-----What i can do to improve my technique better???

-----I love Beethoven sonatas and my plan was to learn all of them, but only with them i will be a great pianist???

------ What i can do about Bach???, i don't care too much, cause i want to play beethoven, but will be great be able to play anything.

------I'm learning too slow?, i know some of the pieces are easy, i'm a beginner. i go to med school so i can't be playing all day, i wish i could. I'm in love with the piano by now , you think if a practice a lot i can become a piano concertist??? , that's my dream, i can't learn piano in my childhood for money reasons and i study medicine 'cause don't knew anything of music.


If there's a way to improve my practice, or get best improvement of my piano time, please tell me , i will be always grateful to you for your answers. Very Happy Yours Angie Wink I love you
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Re: Are Beethoven Sonatas enough for practicing and become a master of piano?

Post by 1748 on Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:59 am

2)-I love Beethoven sonatas and my plan was to learn all of them, but only with them i will be a great pianist
==
all classic mussician have their own style and technique &feeling when press the note..and skill how to play it..
my opinion no

3)I'm learning too slow?, i know some of the pieces are easy, i'm a beginner. i go to med school so i can't be playing all day, i wish i could. I'm in love with the piano by now , you think if a practice a lot i can become a piano concertist??? , that's my dream, i can't learn piano in my childhood for money reasons and i study medicine 'cause don't knew anything of music.
==
practise makes perfect...try to used keyboard if cant afford piano

4)If there's a way to improve my practice, or get best improvement of my piano time, please tell me , i will be always grateful to you for your answers
don't use Hanon or Czerny, i don't practice excersices, scales and that stuff.Don't practice sigth reading, i memorize.Just sit down and play pieces what i love.
===
thats makes you become perfect is scales sight reading..hand position ..tempo...simple things means alot ....

1)What i can do to improve my technique better
same likes answer no4....sight reading tempo...scales..all is technique

1748
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Replying to 1748

Post by angelang on Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:25 am

1748 wrote:2)-I love Beethoven sonatas and my plan was to learn all of them, but only with them i will be a great pianist
==
all classic mussician have their own style and technique &feeling when press the note..and skill how to play it..
my opinion no

3)I'm learning too slow?, i know some of the pieces are easy, i'm a beginner. i go to med school so i can't be playing all day, i wish i could. I'm in love with the piano by now , you think if a practice a lot i can become a piano concertist??? , that's my dream, i can't learn piano in my childhood for money reasons and i study medicine 'cause don't knew anything of music.
==
practise makes perfect...try to used keyboard if cant afford piano

4)If there's a way to improve my practice, or get best improvement of my piano time, please tell me , i will be always grateful to you for your answers
don't use Hanon or Czerny, i don't practice excersices, scales and that stuff.Don't practice sigth reading, i memorize.Just sit down and play pieces what i love.
===
thats makes you become perfect is scales sight reading..hand position ..tempo...simple things means alot ....

1)What i can do to improve my technique better
same likes answer no4....sight reading tempo...scales..all is technique

1748
Thanks for your answers.
I don't practice excercices 'cause that things i learn them in the diary playing of the pieces, will be a matter of pieces learned to archive the goal of doing the excercises so i will use that time in a best way, in example the pathetique in the grave the scale of c minor or e flat mayor, two octaves down, and is repeated various times in the sonata, and the cromatic scales are everywhere. My tempo is good, i have a great feeling of rythm, and i write every sheetmusic page i learned in programs like encore or guitar pro, that help me to hear how it sounds to perfect tempo, i change it to the one i want to have, and hear it, then i use the metronome of my keyboard.
I play in home in a yamaha yog 635 or something like that, and i go to music school, i cheat the vigilants and students and enter to the pianos, i pratice there three times at week. And about sight reading, in concerts you can't do that, it;s all memory , that's the reason i decided to use that time in practicing making good memorized music, instead of poor sight read.
If you can help me more, i will be greatly thankful. Very Happy
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Re: Are Beethoven Sonatas enough for practicing and become a master of piano?

Post by Matthieu Stepec on Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:00 am

I need to listen to your playing in order to tell you what you have to correct.

You can't become a "great pianist" by learning only one composer Wink even if this composer is great and his pieces are difficult. I think that learning the pieces you learned after 6 months of piano is amazing... But if I'm honest I don't believe that much in miracles and I'm sure there is plenty of things that are to be improved in your versions Wink The fact that you can't play Bach is a hint: you probably lack clarity (I had the same problem when I was younger) and your fingers need focused training.
Beethoven's Pathétique, 1st movement, is probably too difficult too, especially those jumps in the right hand.
Please, post a video or an mp3 of your playing!

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Re: Are Beethoven Sonatas enough for practicing and become a master of piano?

Post by 1748 on Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:28 pm

yes i agree with Matthieu..what you play or hear you things its well done maybe who dont know music or piano will said you great...but who can play piano will said diffrent
=======
if i said you are playing autodidact (self-taught) which play sheet memorized the finggering...
question comes is if i gave you new sheet can you play it in 1hour?
if you have know the skill of each cassical composer you only need about maybe 30 minutes...

note ( some of people get wrong with this situatuation)

thats its different you can play it only time of adaptation need more time
=====
i think its all my opinion..because iam just 6month take course too...just still undate here if i have learned what makes difficult i will post it...

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Re: Are Beethoven Sonatas enough for practicing and become a master of piano?

Post by angelang on Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:27 pm

Matthieu Stepec wrote:I need to listen to your playing in order to tell you what you have to correct.

You can't become a "great pianist" by learning only one composer Wink even if this composer is great and his pieces are difficult. I think that learning the pieces you learned after 6 months of piano is amazing... But if I'm honest I don't believe that much in miracles and I'm sure there is plenty of things that are to be improved in your versions Wink The fact that you can't play Bach is a hint: you probably lack clarity (I had the same problem when I was younger) and your fingers need focused training.
Beethoven's Pathétique, 1st movement, is probably too difficult too, especially those jumps in the right hand.
Please, post a video or an mp3 of your playing!


You words mean a lot for me, in this morning, i asked to an advanced piano student to hear my playing, you were right about the improvement thing, there's a lot to do,he said to me what i need to dedicate more time to the cadenzas,to the dinamics, to polish the pieces to get all the potential from them, and i played the Bach and Mozart like romantic style, and well i think i need to learn more composers.

My main question was if i could learn almost everything with the sonatas, they have a lot of things to learn from each one, or thought that will be enough maybe for my likings but not for a the best technique.

The fact i learned almost all in a keyboard and then went to a piano to play, made things easier, specially in the octave tremolos of the left hand in Pathetique , but that made my sense of range of dinamics poor.And i get tired quickly. About the only Beethoven stuff, i tried other ones to test how well the sonatas helped me, and i learned what in them almost all time is right hand principal and the left acompaiment, that make the independence of my hands and the skill of the left poor, that was the problem for playing bach.

The jumps on the rigth hand aren't so difficult even in the chords if you have a visual and touch reference and a pattern of how each jump lead to the another section or chord or jump.

That's true the miracles doesn't exist, this is love for the music , and that's the main thing to learn a lot of stuff easily, i play in my mind the piano and rewrite the sheetmusic ,that help me a lot to memorize more in less time and to improve musical sense.

I didn't understand you about the lack of clarity, if you can explain me more of that i will thank you a lot.

And about the mp3 or videos i will post them when i have the knowledge , software and hardware to do that with the pc and keyboard, i'm in the way by now.

Again a lot of thanks for you.Yor comments make ask me a lot of questions and to return to reality.
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Re: Are Beethoven Sonatas enough for practicing and become a master of piano?

Post by angelang on Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:41 pm

1748 wrote:
=======
if i said you are playing autodidact (self-taught) which play sheet memorized the finggering...
question comes is if i gave you new sheet can you play it in 1hour?
if you have know the skill of each cassical composer you only need about maybe 30 minutes...

note ( some of people get wrong with this situatuation)


what that means???? Neutral

i follow my own fingering, and well, can you be clearer with what are you trying to say?
Thanks anyway for taking the time tio respond.
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Re: Are Beethoven Sonatas enough for practicing and become a master of piano?

Post by 1748 on Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:53 am

autodidact (self-taught) is you play with own fingering...

1} my question comes is if i gave you new sheet can you play it direct in 1hour?

if you have know the skill of each cassical composer you only need about maybe 30 minutes.to play it with right fingering...

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Re: Are Beethoven Sonatas enough for practicing and become a master of piano?

Post by Matthieu Stepec on Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:31 am

Hey there!

I'm glad to see you are serious about what you're doing with the piano. Rewriting sheet music is a good thing!
I know how difficult it is to be aware of your skills and flaws at the same time! To be aware of your limits and of your capacities!
My old teacher, Jean Micault, used to say "always be modest, but always remember you can do it!"

Now about the pieces you choose to play: yes, Beethoven sonates require a lot of technique. But no, I wouldn't learn technique only from them! I think you need Bach, for example, to develop your fingers (not only on the left hand! Try to play Bach with almost no pedal, very steady beat, without moving your hand but only your fingertips! I recommend you to play WTC 1 n°2 (c minor) and n°5 (D major) until they are perfect (both prelude and fugue of course). Start SLOWLY! And try to feel for each note how your fingers pushes the key down then comes back up.
What I meant with the lack of clarity is something like that: to play without pedal, with clear articulation, and with full consciousness of what each finger is doing: in the Pathétique for example it's possible to play in an approximative way, which is impossible with Bach's inventios for example! (Try the 2 part inventio in d minor! it's a good start for Bach)
You say that you get tired quickly: this kind of work (with fingers only) might help you to relax more and never get tired.
Try also to sight read. Take very easy pieces and play them by sight, without looking at your fingers, only at the sheet!

I think that before playing Beethoven sonates (which are extremely difficult) you need to play easier repertoire. Try to play Chopin's Preludes n°20 op.28 (c minor) and n°6 (b minor) for example. And practice as often as you can on a real piano, not a digital one.

I hope that helps!

Nice pic by the way Wink

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Re: Are Beethoven Sonatas enough for practicing and become a master of piano?

Post by angelang on Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:15 pm

Matthieu Stepec wrote:Hey there!

I'm glad to see you are serious about what you're doing with the piano. Rewriting sheet music is a good thing! .......

Thanks a lot for your advices.

In them i understand you mean i need to use the relaxation in the fingers, that's not a problem, i learned it pretty well for playing the left hand octave tremolo in pathetique.

Maybe i have the problem of Andrew Furmanzyk, or a similar one, but not so bad.I have a disease, doctors haven't diagnosted it, it affect my joins causing pain and doesn't cause inflammation and i took a lot of ibuprofen too , i have some muscle weakness, but not so bad, maybe i can't take in arms to my partners, but i can do almost everything without trouble, my hip,knees,feet, shuolder and back joints hurts, my fingers ,wrist and elbows are still ok.And actually i'm in a medication it puts me a little high, and it makes me to feel without energy or strength in any activity.

I learned Bach inventions 1 and 8 , and starting with the 4, someone said me once you know something of the compositor the rest of him become a little easier each time, just needed to play slowly in difficult parts, i forgot it.Well, i will learn the stuff you recommended me, well tempered clavier prelude and fugues and inventions, chopin preludes, i want to extend my repertoire too, to don't sound monotone and the ones who hears me don't say (awwww another Beethoven one).

I apreciate a lot your comments, thanks you very very much. Smile
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