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Who is Elise in "Für Elise"? - New Theory Just Published!

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Who is Elise in "Für Elise"? - New Theory Just Published!

Post by Thomandy on Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:36 pm

So who was this Elise? The one who Beethoven wrote one of his most famous piece to?

Music-Historics have been searching for the answers for many year, and speculated in diverse theories. But now, the German Beethoven-Expert Klause Martin Kopitz claims to have found this mystic women. Here name is Elisabeth Röckel (1793-1883)

Earlier the historics thought Beethoven only knew 2 women with the name Elise, the one; Poet - Elise von der Recke who he met in Teplitz(Teplice) in 1811 and the second one; Pianovertioso - Elise Möller from Bremen, who he met in Wienna in 1820.

In the Original Score, the year which Beethoven composed Fur Elise was missing. But now, in a scetch who contains pre-studies to the piece, fur elise, its accourding to Klause Martin Kopitz, there are proof that the piace was written in 1810 - One year before he met Elise von der Recke and 10 years before he met Elise Möller. So then, who could this Elise be?

Well as written, it is now believed to be Elisabeth Röckel, whos nickname where, yeah, you guesses right; Elise!!^^

Elisabeth Röckel was a German sopran and sister of tenor Josef August Röckel who sang as Florestan during Beethovens Opera "Fidelio" in 1806! Elisabeth Röckel came to Wienna the next year(1907)!!

So when Beethoven wrote the piece in 1810, he had already gotten close to Elisabeth Röckel. How close they where havent been speculated in, but its known that Elisabeth Röckel, right before Beethovens death, got her hands on a sample of his hair, and she also got featherpens as a present!^^

Source: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/artikkel.php?artid=560607
I translated it freely!!^^


Last edited by Thomandy on Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : New Title)
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Re: Who is Elise in "Für Elise"? - New Theory Just Published!

Post by pathetic_pianist on Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:37 pm

Another theory,
"It is not certain who "Elise" was. Some scholars have suggested she was Beethoven's fifth mistress[by whom?], while others have suggested that the discoverer of the piece, Ludwig Nohl, may have transcribed the title incorrectly and the original work may have been named "Für Therese"[4] (Therese being Thérèse von Brunswick, a student of Beethoven's whom he proposed to in 1810 but she turned down to marry the Austrian nobleman and state official Wilhelm von Droßdik[5])."
source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fur_elise

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Re: Who is Elise in "Für Elise"? - New Theory Just Published!

Post by Thomandy on Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:39 pm

pathetic_pianist wrote:Another theory,
"It is not certain who "Elise" was. Some scholars have suggested she was Beethoven's fifth mistress[by whom?], while others have suggested that the discoverer of the piece, Ludwig Nohl, may have transcribed the title incorrectly and the original work may have been named "Für Therese"[4] (Therese being Thérèse von Brunswick, a student of Beethoven's whom he proposed to in 1810 but she turned down to marry the Austrian nobleman and state official Wilhelm von Droßdik[5])."
source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fur_elise

Yeah, but the difference is, that what I wrote is Very Fresh! Its published Today based on new discoveries!!! Smile
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Re: Who is Elise in "Für Elise"? - New Theory Just Published!

Post by pathetic_pianist on Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:43 am

Yeah, but the difference is, that what I wrote is Very Fresh! Its published Today based on new discoveries!!! Smile

That theory was already there in wiki as an alternative theory. Or somebody might have updated that page pretty recently, I am not sure. It states as follows :-
Another - somewhat dubious - theory is that Elise was Elisabeth Roeckel (1793-1883), a German soprano and sister of Joseph August Roeckel.[6] How the autograph of the 'Albumblatt' WoO 59 ended up in the possession of a certain Babette Bredl (who also owned other copies of Beethoven's works in Therese Malfatti's hand!) in Munich, during Röckel's lifetime, is still to be explained.
Smile

They might have found some fresh evidence supporting the above theory. These kind of questions often become the object of lot of popular research and conjectures, like who was the lady in mona lisa and so on. Sometimes they are resolved after getting some evidence that proves beyond any doubt what the actual event might have been, but more often than not, these remain theories.

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Re: Who is Elise in "Für Elise"? - New Theory Just Published!

Post by Thomandy on Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:02 am

pathetic_pianist wrote:...They might have found some fresh evidence supporting the above theory...

Yeah, that must be the case Smile

That is sort of what this say; "But now, in a scetch who contains pre-studies to the piece, fur elise, accourding to Klause Martin Kopitz, there are proof that the piece was written in 1810 - One year before he met Elise von der Recke and 10 years before he met Elise Möller."

And then if this is true, the other theorys cant be true, since the piece was written before Beethoven knew them Smile
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Re: Who is Elise in "Für Elise"? - New Theory Just Published!

Post by Amro on Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:29 pm

Wow

I Knew it Before, but who is : Klause Martin
He works as a Beethoven Expert Only !!
Shocked
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Re: Who is Elise in "Für Elise"? - New Theory Just Published!

Post by littlemack on Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:26 pm

ive always wondered what kind of person she must have been. had to have been a 10/10. id never write a song about my past girlfriends, not such a nice song anyways.
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Re: Who is Elise in "Für Elise"? - New Theory Just Published!

Post by Klavier on Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:49 pm

Haha. I'm sure we can all relate to Mr B in some way. Razz
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Re: Who is Elise in "Für Elise"? - New Theory Just Published!

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