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counting beats in a measure

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counting beats in a measure

Post by frank on Sat May 30, 2009 1:41 pm

Today was my first lesson at a music school and now I know that there are lots of things to learn and I have my first homework Smile Until today I tried to play that it sounds good, but of course the teacher hears if notes are too long or if there are too short pauses. So I have to start with the usual thing, saying "one-and-two-and-three-and-four-and-one...". Looks like this is useful, but at the beginning more complicated for me to say the beats and playing the notes in parallel, but I think I can learn this.

What do piano players do after playing some years? Do they still count the beats? My hope is, that playing piano gets easier after learning it some time, so it will be like saying "one-and-two...", but then you "say" it immediately through your fingers, without consciously thinking or saying the words scratch

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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by Thomandy on Sat May 30, 2009 5:30 pm

I have actually never counted beats Razz Might have been smart to start that early I guess! Might get me dependent on hearing songs Im gona play. But I dont think pros count to much beat, I dont know though!! But for me, at least if I have heard the piece, I can feel when its right to hit the notes based on how I like it Smile But might be some pros or advanced players that beatcount when they need to Smile Its like the hammer, you use it when you need it, so I guess its another tool you can pick up when you need it Smile Keep going!^^
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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by Div on Sat May 30, 2009 6:05 pm

I count beats when I'm off on the timing, otherwise it's usually not too necessary. Then again, I don't play all that complex of stuff yet, so that could be a factor, but I don't imagine that after learning a piece, a professional would be sitting there "one-and-a-and-a-and-a-and-a" really fast on something like

Come to think of it, I don't even know how you would say something like that. Anyways, I see it more as a technique for breaking down timing that isn't initially evident to you more than a technique you actually use while you're playing a piece you know.
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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by goodell on Sat May 30, 2009 7:02 pm

i think more people, at least a drummer friend i have does this, count not necessarily 1 2 and 3 4, but more they just hear a sort of metronome in their head, and know how many times they hit, (or in this case play a note) per "click." That's how i've been doing it as well. I suppose knowing every second and fourth beat is good for accenting things, but after enough practice i would think it would be pretty automatic. Hope this makes sense! Razz
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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by Thomandy on Sat May 30, 2009 8:09 pm

Well in a Mastercalss Barenboim had with LangLang I think it was, Barneboim clapped his hands at one place! Even though I never clap and count, I regularly use the Metronome!! Smile
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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by frank on Sat May 30, 2009 8:13 pm

Thanks for your tips. Looks like counting doesn't really work when I try to play a bit faster, but for learning more complicated parts at slow speed it is fine. When playing faster, tapping the beats with my foot helps me a bit, but I guess I can do it after some months in my head, too.

This is me playing the first half of the part the teacher gave me for learning:

http://www.frank-buss.de/tmp/practice.mp3

Maybe I have to work on dynamic and accenting, but I think the timing is ok. The rest is 3/4 and 2/4, which makes it a bit more interesting, and after this I think I can try "Eine kleine Nachtmusik" again Cool

I think using a metronome is not a good idea at the beginning. The teacher said this is useful later. I think it is important to learn how to play the notes without a metronome, first.

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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by VictorCS on Sat May 30, 2009 8:55 pm

When I play the guitar I use my foot to keep the beat, I used to do it when i played the piano too, but right now i'm having difficulties doing that.

My bed and desk got thrown out when we moved to this new house, my desk was to massive and my bed just fell apart. So I'm floorish atm.

I use my knee to press the pedal, gonna buy a new desk, but I dont know if i wanna throw away money for a new bed, since i'll have to buy it for my own money. No nasty bug crawling around upstairs anyway, so a bed seems unnecessary atm ^_^

( sry for the greenish tint in the upper pic, me failing whtbalance )


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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by frank on Sat May 30, 2009 9:24 pm

Your setup doesn't looks very comfortable, which is important for me. This is how it looks in my flat. I don't have a big flat, so lots of stuff is surrounded, but at least playing the piano is comfortable Smile


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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by pathetic_pianist on Sun May 31, 2009 1:11 pm

Thomandy wrote:Well in a Mastercalss Barenboim had with LangLang I think it was, Barneboim clapped his hands at one place! Even though I never clap and count, I regularly use the Metronome!! Smile

Practicing with metronome is kind of so scary, I find myself concentrating on the ticks too much and forget about playing the notes. For example if I set the metronome to beat 110 times a minute, and have to play one eighth notes, to calculate to hold the note for exactly half a beat kind of scares me off (it is even more difficult for 1 /16ths), and I soon find myself practicing without the metronome, going by instinct, like if it is sounding right, it is probably right. But that is wrong I guess.

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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by Thomandy on Sun May 31, 2009 4:48 pm

pathetic_pianist wrote:
Thomandy wrote:Well in a Mastercalss Barenboim had with LangLang I think it was, Barneboim clapped his hands at one place! Even though I never clap and count, I regularly use the Metronome!! Smile

Practicing with metronome is kind of so scary, I find myself concentrating on the ticks too much and forget about playing the notes. For example if I set the metronome to beat 110 times a minute, and have to play one eighth notes, to calculate to hold the note for exactly half a beat kind of scares me off (it is even more difficult for 1 /16ths), and I soon find myself practicing without the metronome, going by instinct, like if it is sounding right, it is probably right. But that is wrong I guess.

Well, I think I felt that in the beginning as well. But only in the very beginning before I found my Main Dictation on how to approach music.. You might have guess it; Slow!! ^^
This applies to the metronome as well! Of course its hard to do 16notes on high speed with metronome, and especially if you arent used to it Smile I can use my Bach Invention No8 as an Ex. When I knew the notes(Cause you have to know every single note on reflex to be able to use the metronome good) I started at 1/3 the speed = 85 on my metronome, the next day = 100, so went the days, and suddenly I played it at 207 which was the speed I wanted! And you know what, to answer your Q, after this period I never noticed the metronome as a pain, it just was there in the background letting me know I was on track! If I had started out with 200(not bpm btw) I would Never have been able to either play the piece, nor use a metronome Smile So Slow down, get Very conferable at a speed, and then turn it up Just a Little!! The slower you increase the speed, the faster you will actually play the top speed at a good level!! Smile
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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by frank on Sun May 31, 2009 9:34 pm

A metronome might work for music which has the same tempo all the time. But at least for my lesson it sounds better with different tempo. Maybe this is the reason why there is "Moderato" written above one line and "Allegretto" above another line Smile

That's my new try, after some thirty repetitions trying to make it sound better:

http://www.frank-buss.de/tmp/practice2.mp3

It is interesting how different it sounds with other tempo and dynamic, even for such a simple piece. I'm not sure, if my tempo variation is too strong, but at least it sounds better than my first try, but still not perfect, but I don't know what to change.

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Re: counting beats in a measure

Post by 1748 on Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:15 pm

when you dont know the song it will easy to count...
but if you know the song...better you sing in your heart the tempo its same...
when learning piano we learn the sheet music its unknown...like me i dont know much classical song even children song...because iam from eastern
then i take a course classical piano...totally i dont know all song..^^

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